Ordination Council Notes

Notes for Ordination Council for Jim Brinkman

May 28, 2011

 

Bob McNutt, moderator, opened the meeting in prayer.

 

Mike Brown, deacon from 1st Baptist recommended Jim to the ordination council.  Mike is acting as a representative of 1st Baptist Collinsville.

 

The vote for the council to be seated:

 

Mark Gause, Alhambra 1st Baptist

Col. John Brockman (retired), Alhambra 1st Baptist

Mike Brown, deacon at 1st Baptist Collinsville

David Linnell, pastor of worship at 1st Baptist Collinsville

Jim McFall,  deacon at 1st Baptist Collinsville

Robert McNutt, 1st Covenant Church, Glen Carbon, IL

Richard Boerckel, Bethany Baptist Church, Peoria

 

Mark G motion to have McNutt as moderator and Boerckel as secretary.

Motion approved.

 

Jim B. began by sharing his testimony.  (cf. Personal Testimony that Jim printed for us.  Glory to God for His amazing grace.)

 

Jim shared what led up to ordination and his view of ordination.  Jim shared his conviction of God calling him to be the pastor. 

 

Council’s Questioning:

 

Bibliology:  Jim read his doctrinal statement regarding bibliology. 

 

Mark G:  What about the verses missing from some of the modern manuscripts?

Jim B:  By God’s providence they are in there.  Not a fan of the NIV. 

 

Jim McFall:  How do you deal with children and memorization?

Jim B:  The translation used should be understandable.  Prefer NASB, NKJV.

 

Ritch B:  What is your view of the sufficiency of scripture?

Jim McFall:  God’s word is sufficient.  I do not have problem with using other truth if it agrees with scripture, but I do not believe that scripture needs much help.  If we think God is speaking to us outside of the Bible, we do not understand the Bible.  Charismatic movement is an attack on the veracity and sufficiency of the Word of God.  2 Timothy 3:16-17.

 

Mark G:  How literal do we understand Genesis 1 and how important is that?

Jim B:  If the plain sense makes sense . . . I do not have the right to interpret the Bible other than literally.  If Bible says the world was created in 6 days, I go with it.

 

Dave L:  If someone comes to church who does not know God and we as Christians cannot agree, how do we bring them along spiritually?

Jim B:  Gospel is the Gospel.  If we cannot agree on the Gospel, then we are in trouble.  Secondly, we should address some issues more clearly in our doctrinal statement.  I have come to realize that it is not my place to beat people up over doctrine, but to be faithful to God and His Word.

 

Dave L:  How would you help this person if we had these documents and then they visit another church and see the disagreements?

Jim B:  I would want to meet with them and help them to understand what the Bible teaches.

 

Bob McNutt:  Would our unity in doctrine help this person become a believer?

Jim B:  No.

 

Bob M.:  Are there foundational issues and secondary issues of doctrine?

Jim B:  Yes.  The Gospel must be center.  We can disagree on many issues as long as the Gospel is the Gospel.

 

Mike B:  Could I get some advice for a family member who is Christian Science? 

Jim B:  I would seek a private meeting with the family member. 

 

Bob McN:  Would you put yourself in a presuppositionalist camp or evidential camp?

Jim B:  Presuppositionalist camp.

 

Theology Proper

 

Bob McN:  Talk about the doctrine of the Trinity.

Jim B:  Growing up as a RC, the Father was emphasized and role of Son was diminished.  I wanted Jesus to be lifted up when I became a Christian.  I have come to understand that the Father leads and His passion is to exalt the Son.  The Son wants to exalt the Father and the Spirit exalts the Son.  I wanted to see the Trinity united in Christ in the future so I speculated.  But the reality is that God in three persons is perfect now.

 

Bob McN:  How would you respond to modalism?

Jim B:  Not familiar with it.

 

Bob McN:  At the cross, how do we see modalism refuted?

Jim B:  We see Trinity at work as Son commits self into Father’s hands, as Spirit works to raise Jesus from the dead, as Father pours out wrath upon Son.

 

Lynn Brinkman shared her testimony and support of Jim’s ordination.

Mark G:  How do you answer those who disbelieve in the God of the Bible because of the evil and pain in the world?  How do you respond to open theism or process theology?

Jim B:  The issue is what is evil.  God did not create evil, but evil is a lack of God’s perfection.  This gets into the idea of free will.  God withdraws His perfection to the degree that it gives man the ability to choose.  Just as darkness is the absence of light so evil is the absence of God’s perfection.   What we see is the result of man’s rebellion against God and God’s withdrawal (to some degree).  Earthquakes, diseases, . . . and we see it in the crucifixion of Jesus.  We have to trust that God has a plan in this.  There is no hope in an imperfect world without Him.  The only hope is for Christ to return and restore His perfect righteousness.  Romans 9.  

 

Mark G:  If infertile couple conceives and then has child with deformities, how do you counsel them as they blame God for their hardship?  What is their comfort?

Jim B:  Romans 8:28.  I Corinthians 1.  1 Cor 10:13.  God saw that you as a couple are able to deal with this difficulty.  God has a blessing for you through it.  I would talk about God’s saving grace upon children who lack mental capabilities to understand the Gospel.  God is too wise to make mistakes, too loving to be unkind.  Being a Christian does not protect us from tragedy.  God has allowed this to happen for His glory.   By allowing it, God ordains it.  There is God’s permissive will and His perfect will. 

 

Mike B:  If God is all powerful and all knowing, why do I need to come to Him for salvation?

Jim B:  Man is a free moral agent and no one is left out of heaven because God did not choose Him, but because the man did not choose God.  Romans 9.  God has elected me before the foundation of the world, but I am still accountable.

 

Mark G:  Do any of His attributes stand out more strongly than others?

Jim B:  No, I think man often has emphasized His grace and mercy to limitation of His holiness and righteousness.  All of His attributes are co-equal. 

 

Christology

 

Mark G:  What is the importance of Jesus being fully God and fully man?

Jim B:  Jesus is the link between heaven and earth.  If He were not fully God, he would have sin and could not die for our sins.  If He were not fully man, he could not represent us.  Jesus is totally unique.  Nothing else comes close.  I love the concept of a super being walked among.

 

Mark G:  Can you separate Jesus being 100% God and 100% man?  How did God die?

Jim B:  He is the same forever.  When Jesus died, the man Jesus died.

 

Mark G:  How is temptation real if Jesus is impeccable?

Jim B:  He did not cease to be God, but He gave up prerogative to act as God.  He was a real man.  He demonstrated what a man could do when submitted fully to Holy Spirit. 

 

Bob McN:  How could Jesus not know the time of His return if He is God?

Jim B:  He yielded the independent use of His omniscience to the Father.

 

Mark G:  How important is the literal blood of Christ?

Jim B:  It is the blood of Christ that saves us.  MacArthur says that the blood is symbolic of His death.  I do not think His physical blood had magical powers.

 

Pneumatology

 

Ritch B:  What scriptures would you use to help a person who believes that all gifts are for today?

Jim B:  There is a verse that says that the gifts are for the body and not the individual who possesses the gift.  Matthew 6 where Jesus teaches about praying and instructs us to speak to God intelligently.  Acts 2 describes tongues as known languages.  What is the purpose of these gifts?  The purpose of miracles was to verify Jesus as Messiah and apostles as sent from him.  We have a more sure word . . . the Bible.

 

Mark G:  I Cor 13.  What is “that which is perfect”? 

Jim B:  It has to be Christ.  When we go to glory.  Upon further reflection, it has to be the completion of the scriptures.

 

Mark G:  Should we do a better job of helping people know spiritual gifts?  Are we still gifted?

Jim B:  Yes.  I do not think we should give a quiz.  But we should teach the scriptures on this subject and trust God to reveal giftedness. 

 

Mike B:  Our church did some testing for spiritual gifts years ago, if you had that test at hand, would you feel comfortable using that list to direct people to ministry?

Jim B:  I feel that is going too far.

 

Angelology and Satanology

 

Mark B:  How much power does Satan have?  Can he produce natural disasters?

Jim B:  He did with Job?  God put limitations on Satan.  I think that Satan has access to our mind.  I do not know what those limitations are.  God is still sovereign. 

 

Bob McN:  What would an exorcism look like in 2011?

Jim B:  MacArthur presents the Gospel.  I am not in favor of binding of Satan through prayer. 

 

Anthropology

 

Mark G:  How would you defend dichotomy versus trichotomy?

Jim B:  I am not dogmatic on this.  Pastor McNutt helped me in counseling ministry with value of trichotomy.  What is difference between the spirit and the soul?  I will not break fellowship over this. 

 

Bob McN:  What is the image of God in man?

Jim B:  Man is God’s agent to rule imbued with mind, will and emotion. 

 

Jim  McFall:  How does billions of years of science correspond to thousands of years?  What happened to dinosaurs?

Jim B:  God could have created the earth looking old.  I do not have a good explanation of dinosaurs.

 

Mark G:  What does total depravity mean?

Jim B:  Our sin nature corrupts us spiritual.  Our mind does not function well.  I do not believe that man is incapable of doing good things.  There are different levels of manifestation of depravity.   From God’s standpoint, even if we do good, it is sin because it is not done for His glory.

 

Hamartiology

 

Bob Mc:  Can a person be a Christian and not know that they are a sinner?

Jim B:  No

 

Jim McFall:  Can a person go to heaven without being a Christian?

Jim B:  No.  A baby goes to heaven because they do not possess unbelief.

 

Perry:  A person who says I am saved, but I refuse to give up the lifestyle of homosexuality, are they saved?

Jim B:  I would be reluctant to say someone is not saved if they have not removed all sin.  HOWEVER, if someone receives Jesus as Lord, they cannot persist in sin.  I do not believe in two-tiered . . . receiving Jesus as Savior and then as Lord. 

 

Jim McF:  What about Christian who gets involved with adultery?

Jim B:  Eventually, we treat a person as an unbeliever . . . we do not know, God knows about their salvation. 

 

Soteriology

 

Ritch B:  Define repentence.

Jim B:  it is an “about face”.  You may not recognize some sins. 

 

Mark G:  Were people saved before they knew it . . . . before they prayed a prayer?

Jim B:  My salvation became apparent to me when I prayed to receive Jesus.

 

Ecclesiology

 

Bob McN:  How important is the local church.

Jim B:  It is everything.  One of the difficulties is parachurch.  I am not opposed to parachurch if they are accountable to the local church.  A Christian disconnected from local church is in defiance of God.

 

Bob McN:  What would you say to one who says, “I love God.  I worship Him on the golf course.”

Jim B:  That person does not love their brother.  Being a part of the local church is part of God’s plan. 

 

Mark G:  How do you view the qualifications for local church?

Jim B:  These qualifications must be in place.  No one keeps this perfectly, but these are the bent of their life.  I do not think a parent is accountable for what a grown child does, but they are accountable for what a child is doing while they are young.

 

Jim M: Why does divorce disqualify, but not adultery.

Jim B:  Adultery does disqualify forever. 

 

Mark G: Talk about your position on divorce and remarriage.

Jim B:  The Bible gives two reasons for divorce—abandonment and sexual sin.  But adultery is not an automatic, we should be willing to forgive.  If you are the victim of divorce, . . .  If you are divorced unbiblically, and repentant, then I might marry you.  I do not want to keep them banned from marriage forever.

 

(Some of the last few questions were not included in these minutes due to a dead battery in my computer.)

 

MOTION TO GO TO EXECUTIVE SESSION:  John Brockman.  Approved.

 

Decision of the Executive Committee:

 

The executive committee would like to enthusiastically endorse Jim Brinkman to the ministry of the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ.  We commend him for the clarity and simplicity of his doctrinal statement as well as the humility which he demonstrated during the process.  Through it all Jim demonstrated his love for the Lord and a teachable spirit.

 

Unanimously Approved.